Travel Again Podcast: S3E5 with guest Alicia Tillman, Chief Marketing Officer Delta Air Lines

Travel Again Podcast: S3E5 - Navigating the Skies with Delta CMO Alicia Tillman

Welcome back to the Travel Again Podcast! In Season 3, Episode 5, hosts Mike McCormick and Ed Silver sit down with a major player in the travel industry: Alicia Tillman, Chief Marketing Officer of Delta Air Lines.

Before diving into the insightful interview, Mike and Ed touch upon the current travel landscape. They discuss the mixed signals in the market, noting cautious optimism from hotel operators despite recession concerns, while the cruise industry, led by giants like Carnival Corp, continues to boom. They also briefly cover recent industry news, like United Airlines increasing some of its fees.

The main feature is the conversation with Alicia Tillman. With decades of experience at companies like American Express and SAP, Alicia brings a wealth of knowledge to her role at Delta. She shares how her early career experiences, particularly at Rosenbluth International, instilled the importance of employee focus and customer care – values she sees mirrored in Delta's culture under CEO Ed Bastian.

Episode Highlights:

• Delta's Employee-First Culture: Alicia emphasizes Delta's deep investment in its 100,000 employees, seeing it as the core driver of their operational success, premium positioning, and resilience through industry challenges.

• Brand Transparency & Social Media: Delta tackles social media feedback with transparency and direct engagement, valuing open communication, especially during operational disruptions. They are actively making pilots more visible to passengers to enhance connection and satisfaction.

• The Evolution of Loyalty: Alicia discusses how loyalty programs are moving beyond traditional travel rewards. Delta aims to be the 'world's most loved loyalty program' by integrating into customers' lifestyles through partnerships with diverse brands like Starbucks, Paramount+, Uber, YouTube, and even Shake Shack for unique onboard meal options.

• Authentic Partnerships: While expanding partnerships, Alicia stresses the importance of maintaining brand authenticity and ensuring collaborations genuinely add value and make sense for the Delta customer.

• Personal Balance: Alicia offers a personal perspective on managing a high-profile career, sharing how her roles as a professional and a mother enrich each other, helping her cope with the daily 'chaos'.

Listen to the full episode here: Travel Again Podcast S3E5

Full Episode Transcript:

(Intro Music/Announcer): Welcome to Travel Again Presents, the weekly travel roundup covering the headwinds and tailwinds impacting the business of travel. Please welcome our hosts, Mike McCormick and Ed Silver.

Ed: How are you doing, Mike? Welcome.

Mike: Hey, Ed. Good to see you, as always.

Ed: Good to see you. We are on season three, episode five. And you might notice I have a slightly different view today. I am podcasting from the beautiful state of Colorado up in the foothills outside Denver, Mike.

Mike: Very nice. And for me, I'm in the usual spot, but I'm dressed for opening day of Major League Baseball. Put me in coach. I'm ready. I'm ready to play. And we are the Phillies opener here in D.C., where I am. And that's exciting, too. So they're coming to town to kick off another year. So we'll see where that all goes. But I'm excited for another season.

Ed: It is awesome. Well, go birds. I mean, go Phils. Sorry about that. Mike, we are cooking this season. And today we will, as always, review the news. And there continues to be some ups and downs in travel: tariffs, Canada travel slowdown, travel bans, inbound travel slowing, consumer confidence lowering... you name it, and it may be having an impact on travel today. We can ask our guests how they are navigating it all. Our guest is a major player in the travel industry. We don't often get a deep dive into the marketing side of airlines, so today that is exactly what we will do.

Mike: Well, so I'd say, you know, let's dive into the news because, like you said, there is a lot of it. And it's interesting, a lot of the factors that shape travel, probably the most resilient industry in the world. But at the same time, man, it's always a lot of interesting, you know, headwinds and tailwinds, as we always say, right?

Ed: All right. Mike, let's bust right into it. Article one today, uh, from our friends at Skift: "Recession Watch for Travel? These Hotel Insiders Don't See It Yet." The travel industry is on recession watch, but so far at least, hotel operators aren't seeing a big pullback, according to the nearly dozen sources Skift has been tracking. There are signs of softening, however, and we'll be watching closely for any shifts in the coming weeks. Mike, I'll throw up the article. Give us some context here. What's going on? Recession, no recession, slowdown, no slowdown. What do you see?

Mike: Well, I think that's exactly what you just said, kind of sums it up in a lot of ways. I mean, look, travel is resilient. There's still heavy demand in different pockets of the market, but what shapes that demand changes. And today, this year, looking forward into 2025, you can always try to draw off the past to some degree. But, you know, as they say, the past is not always a good predictor of the future. Right?

So we have, you know, interesting dynamics. You know, the major airlines, led by Delta, basically reduced their forecast for this year and said, look, things are softening and, you know, need to give guidance in that respect. And I think in that way, you know, as we know, the airline industry drives the travel industry. I mean, it's kind of the beginning of it. You know, whatever happens there is a good reflection of what we're seeing largely across the industry.

However, not necessarily in every segment of the industry. Some are more positive, more negative. So I think what we're finding, like this first article, I think for hotels, you know, there's still... there's, you know, some, let's say, caution. As Marriott's CEO said, they're "cautiously optimistic" because they're still seeing relatively good ADR, relatively good demand. Everything seems... they're not seeing that same softening yet. But, you know, they're also cautious that maybe things are changing. Maybe given some of the geopolitical things happening, people are staying more domestic. And so they're still seeing, you know, healthy demand. But, you know, again, cautious. Right? Because we do hear the things about, you know, travel into the US being, you know, down significantly. Right? And, you know, starting to have an impact. So there's a lot of factors at play here.

But again, and we'll talk about one of the other segments here that's booming, right? It's really interesting to see how that happens. But again, as we've seen, travel is resilient. People still find a way to travel, to meet both for leisure and for business travel. And whether that means like now for business travel, they're doing it more at conferences and events and meetings than they are necessarily in regular, you know, individual business travel, or transient travel... but then same time leisure, again, people find like, people still want to vacation, they still want to have leisure time, they still need to do things, but maybe the way they do it might change. Hotel seems to be holding up though for now, and you know, good for the industry if it does.

Ed: Okay, Mike, let's just get right into Article Two because you hinted at it. From Travel Weekly: "U.S. Economic Worries Don't Seem to Be Slowing Down Carnival Corporation." While Carnival Corp is not immune from macroeconomic and geopolitical volatility, the CEO Josh Weinstein said, business remains strong at the world's largest cruise company. So not impacting cruise yet, Mike?

Mike: No, and that's one of those on the leisure side. I mean, cruise is booming. I mean, let's just, you know, you can see it. The most... most of the lines every day seem to be announcing yet another commitment to adding more capacity, adding ships, adding... you know, the major cruise lines, some of them are starting to add river cruises. They're just seeing nothing but positive demand coming. And again, it's a segment of the market, but now... in, you know, previous down times, I mean, for example, you know, again, post-COVID, cruise was the last to recover. But now it's leading in terms of, you know, the resiliency and the business is just going gangbusters. So again, the ebbs and flows, you know, change constantly. This is another sector that seems to be doing well and just seems to be almost immune right now to any of the geopolitical, say, noise and headwinds that are there. It seems to be going as good or better than ever. So interesting to watch.

Ed: Okay. Shifting gears slightly, Mike, although maybe related, you tell us.

Mike: It's all related. It's all related.

Ed: United Airlines raises credit card and lounge fees. Here's what we need to know from our friends at Skift. United Airlines announced Monday that it is raising fees for its credit card and lounge access in a bid that the carrier says will make the cards more valuable to customers. The changes, made alongside its banking partner, JPMorgan Chase, include more benefits such as ride-share credits, company Instacart membership. The new fees go into effect Monday for new signups. Benefits will still be active for existing customers. This generated a lot of, I'll call it, noise in the online travel and points world community, Mike. So maybe some perspective about what's going on here?

Mike: Well, I think, look, we've seen it very publicly in terms of, like, Southwest's decision after all this time, right, to announce that they're going to start charging for bags. There's always... Look, airlines are businesses, and there's always pressure on, always to beat last quarter, last year's earnings, to keep increasing in terms of revenues and profitability. And, you know, at some point, you know, the fees that are related to a lot of these services are going to continue to go up. I mean, that's just a fact of, you know, if nothing else, inflation, but everything else and just normal practices. But it's revenue management and just another part of the business, right? Where they're constantly looking for ways to do that.

And also, we'll get into this with our interview today, but also ways that they, in turn, make their different loyalty offerings more valuable, right? Because if you're a loyal customer and you're not paying those fees or need to not pay as much, you know, that's a tangible benefit. So there's a lot at play here, but it doesn't surprise me that, you know, some of that happens. But to your point, in the travel industry and with the public, you know, those relatively, seemingly small, you know, increases and changes in price get a lot of attention. Which again is, you know... Hey, look, travel touches everyone and everybody has something [to say]. In another industry, another sector, somebody raised their prices somewhat, you wouldn't even hear about it until you went to pay and you just realized when you paid for it. In travel, everything gets attention.

Ed: Okay. Thank you for that, Mike. Mike, we will be right back with our guest.

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Mike: And that was a good one. The first one was great, Mike, and I'm sure the second one will be great as well.

Ed: Alright, now on to our guest today, we have Alicia Tillman. Alicia Tillman, an executive leader with more than two decades of experience in global marketing, sales, and strategy, is Delta's Chief Marketing Officer and a member of the Delta Leadership Committee. Tillman leads Delta's brand strategy, overseeing the airline's world-class global marketing, creative services, and community engagement teams, bringing its story to life and deepening its relationship with customers and the world as a trusted consumer brand. Tillman's marketing credentials include leadership experience as the global CMO at SAP, and an eleven-year tenure at American Express, and Forbes has named her one of the most influential CMOs in the world. Please join me in welcoming Alicia Tillman to the stage. Alicia, nice to have you.

Alicia: Hey, thank you for having me today. It's such an honor.

Mike: It's an honor to have you. It's great. I mean, look, Alicia, you know, disclosure, right? You and I started off, uh, early in our careers in the same company, uh, back another... we're Rosenbluth alumni, uh, back in the day. And, uh, but, man, you've had an incredible journey, like, I mean, in terms of the companies, what you've been involved in and what led you now to this role. I mean, you know, how have all those experiences shaped you? I mean, I always talk about those early days and the, you know, the impact it had on me in my career. But, you know, you've had some again... How do you bring all that to your job at Delta today?

Alicia: Well, truth be told, you know, it was interesting when I started my role at Rosenbluth International in Philadelphia. And real quick story on Rosenbluth... I grew up in Princeton, New Jersey, so I was equal distance between Philadelphia and New York. And my dream was always... Okay, the sports, you probably want to know where my allegiance is from a sports perspective, right? I heard a "Go Birds," so I will say, diehard Eagles fan, so Ed, I will make you happy. But Mike, I am sadly going to make you very disappointed when I reveal my baseball team. So for whatever reason, it's so crazy. You always follow your parents in a lot of ways when it comes to sports allegiance. And so my dad loved Eagles, Sixers, but he was a Mets fan. Yes, it's so wild. But then... And then when I had kids, we were living in and around New York City. And so then my son naturally became a Yankees fan. And now I'm in Atlanta, so I love the Braves. It's like we're all over the place as a family now.

Mike: That's tough. The only thing you could have said worse, though, really a lot worse, is if you told me, well, yeah, but I'm really a Cowboys fan. I would have been like, okay, end the podcast right there. I mean, come on. I have a little more tolerance in baseball.

Alicia: I agree. And I've said, okay, so, so in my household, my son is a, you know, diehard New York, so he's a Giants fan. My son grew up in Northern Virginia, so he's Commanders. And so we've got practically the whole NFC East covered in our household, except for the Cowboys, because it's just simply not allowed.

Mike: That would be bad parenting.

Alicia: That I would. And I agree. So my story on Rosenbluth... I wanted to work in Philly first. It, for whatever reason, felt like a, you know, a city that was less intimidating than New York. And, but I didn't know where to start. So I picked up Fortune magazine's "100 Best Companies to Work For in America." And I scanned down the list. And the very first Philadelphia-based company was Rosenbluth International. And it sat at number 34 on the list. I remember it to this day. And a story you probably don't know is at the time, I went to Rosenbluth's website and the Head of Marketing role was available. So here I was, no experience, fresh out of school, and I put in my resume to be the Head of Marketing for Rosenbluth International.

And I, of course, did not get that job with zero experience, but I did get accepted into our floating manager program. I don't know if you recall that. And it's where you got invited into the six-month program of which you rotated through every single department in the company over the six-month period. And I went through that, and I will tell you, not having any idea what was to become of my career, I said, "This is the best job I will ever have." And I stand here today and I still say the same. And it's for two reasons.

Number one, you know, what kid out of school has the ability to literally sit in every single department in a company to really just understand, like, why is a corporation a corporation? Like, why do we need all of these departments and how do they work together? And so to be able to see that, it just helped me get a real appreciation for how you work together across the various departments that exist in a business.

And it was the best company for me to start at. Because at the heart, as we know, Mike, which is the Rosenbluth secret sauce, is this tremendous care and empathy and respect for people. Our employees being truly what sets your brand apart from any other on the planet is when you invest in your employees first, that's when they really bring their authentic self to the customer. And that shaped me, and it also shaped my ability to work effectively in navigating through a corporation.

Mike: I totally have my own version of that story with Rosenbluth and to Hal Rosenbluth's credit and the whole team there... those early days, the amount of mentoring I got. I look back now and I'm like, I feel bad for people today in this environment because it's rare that you would even have those kind of opportunities anymore. I got an education about business and management and leadership in a way that I think is unmatched. I mean, and that's why a part of what, you know, really shaped, you know, all of us in our careers, because you see the people throughout the industry and our common bond was that environment. I mean, you were ultimately given responsibilities... I was, like, way ahead of probably what we would have been able to get in any other company. And, you know, they took... there was a lot of faith and risk in us, but they also gave us the support. I mean, we learned on the job, like you said, and it's fantastic.

And you hit on that now, like in terms of culture and kind of maybe shifting gears to Delta. But Delta has also a long history of being customer-first and [having a strong] internal culture. And I've dealt with Delta as a, you know, as a customer of theirs, and a client of theirs business-wise, you know, very much. And then also the reverse... and man, you know, you just always get a very positive, you know, feel, like just walking the hallways and dealing with people. And that, to be able to do that, and also but then also be able to turn that into the level of business success [Delta] has had... it's not easy. How do you, how do you translate... how do you effectively translate from a marketing perspective? How do you project that? What are the things you deliberately do? Like, how do you translate that into your storytelling and everything? I mean, it's really... it's not easy. In some ways it's great, but in other ways, it's not always easy. Right?

Alicia: Yeah. And it's... it's sort of my career has come full circle in many ways because I started my career at Rosenbluth's vision and leadership on how important it is to take care of your employees, where Ed Bastian, 100%, shares the same philosophy. And it's a wonder why I am here, because you often are drawn to sort of what's at your core and what's really aligned with your values. And our people [at Delta] are truly unrivaled. And that's just not in our industry. I've had the great privilege of working in a few industries where I've seen it firsthand. It's unrivaled, frankly, across industries: the investments we make in learning and development and reward and recognition, all the things that really help feed our souls, which then ultimately becomes how we operate day-to-day in delivering the goodness of our brand.

And we always say, as most CEOs typically do, "Our people are our most valuable asset." And there's an expectation that companies put on their people when it comes to delivering the service they expect. But oftentimes, companies aren't as accountable as they need to be in the investment companies need to make to be able to enable that at the same time. Delta does that and does it so well. And so in a lot of ways, Mike, my job is a bit easy because I get to just tell the great story of just the authentic way in which our people operate, and our customers can really showcase that and say, "Yeah, it's right." The interactions that I have with Delta people, be it from the flight attendants to the reservationists to the pilots, it feels like it's coming from the inside with every service experience that you have.

And so, you know, we spend a lot of time... we have 100,000 employees. We sit here in our centennial year, the first domestic carrier to turn 100 years old. And it's so interesting when someone turns 100 years old, usually they're not at the top of their game anymore. But Delta is. Number one financially, number one operationally, number one from a premium perspective. The consistency in the accolades that the company receives... I woke up yesterday morning and Ed is gracing the cover of Fortune magazine. And the story is all about one of... resilience. And if you think back through these hundred years of Delta, of course, we know of all of the challenges from SARS to September 11th to a global pandemic. But then you think of the individual challenges then to Delta, on bankruptcy and the merger with Northwest. And all the things in between that we know are just direct impacts on the industry. Yet here is a company who has overcome it all. And I will say time and time again, it is because of the investment we make in the people and how our people rise up every single time to lead and to really put all of their strength behind the operation, and to really help fuel that loyalty that we're just so proud of that we have with our customer base.

Mike: How do you deal with... I mean, I imagine you have a significant amount of resource dealing with all the, you know, social media in all its forms, right? You have a lot of influencers, a lot of... you know, there's always tons of, you know, poking at individual experiences. Everybody's experiences are known. How do you deal with that as a brand? I mean, it must be... I mean, the daily task alone of monitoring all of it is not insignificant. But what do you do on that front? How do you deal with the naysayers, in a sense, out there in the world?

Alicia: Well, I will say we deal with it as transparently as we can and should be. And I'll say this: I'll talk about it in terms of how we manage it kind of online in this digital universe that we all operate in today. But I'll also talk about it in the context of how our pilots, how our flight attendants manage through it as well. And we hear time and time again, if we are in the middle of an irregular operation where there's a delay, there's a cancellation... we hear time and time again from a service recovery perspective that our customers value more transparent and open communication than any form of compensation that we give to them as a result of a service disruption.

Mike: Makes a huge difference.

Alicia: It makes such a huge difference. I mean, we all know, even living through the pandemic, people just wanted to hear from people, even if they just simply didn't have any updates to share. It's that human connection to know that, "Hey, we're in it. We're dealing with it. Here's what I know now. And I'm going to be back to you in a little bit just to give you another update, even if there isn't really something of substance to share."

And so one of the things that we're doing, and if you've flown on Delta recently, hopefully you're recognizing this, we're trying to bring our pilots more visible with the passengers. So pilots coming into the front of the cabin so everyone can see them, and they're talking with them about their journey, what to expect, you know, here's what we're going to do from a service perspective if there's going to be some disruptions along the journey. But we find when our passengers can see the pilots, in addition to hearing from the pilots, we see our overall satisfaction with that one flight experience go up significantly as a result of it.

And so that's just in itself related to the operation. Now to your question on social... Sure. People take to social with everything: happy, sad, angry, you name it. Social has become this playground for all of it. And my team is not as big as maybe one would expect with a consumer brand as large as ours. But what we do is we engage, right? Like if someone is unhappy, immediately we engage with them and we help them, whether it's communication or, "What can we do to make this better for you?" We are constantly... and obviously there's often great volume. The good news though that I will say: the negative volume is definitely not at the volume of the positivity that we see our customers out there talking about related to Delta, but we engage with them as well. We like our happy customers, but we also want to take care of our customers. And so just being on it, we are always on as a team. It's a 24/7 operation. And if somebody is struggling or they need help or what have you, like we are just... we're committed to be on it. It's hard. It's not easy. We make it happen. We're doing the juggle. It's real. But we do our best to just engage as much as we can everywhere when someone has something going on online, especially when they're struggling with something.

Mike: Great. So part of your purview, and certainly Delta's... and it's been well, well written about, the value of your loyalty program. And comparisons have been made about how, in effect, the loyalty program is more valuable than the airline itself, or those kinds of [statements]... which I take a little bit, like, in context of, well, you got to have an actual genuine brand, operation, everything before you get to the loyalty element of it. So let's, you know, a little bit of the cart before the horse to me, but the realities are it's incredibly important and it's a huge currency. What... what do you... you know, where's that going? Like, where do you... Part of your purview, I think, is really finding ways to extend your brand.

I want to do a shout out for your Sphere program because I thought it was great. Again, test and learn, but you went out and you made a commitment to doing something different, to try to project the brand in a different way. And I thought it was great. And you're always going to have a few, well, you know, a few naysayers like, "You know, why were they doing this? Why?" It's like, yeah, well, they're doing it because they're actually trying to bring new elements of marketing and reach customers in a different way. And I thought it was really innovative. But I mean, tell your story in a unique way. I thought it was great.

Alicia: That's great. And what an incredible venue to do it in, too. So that's beside the point.

Mike: But where do you think loyalty is going? And what role do you see that playing? And what's the future hold?

Alicia: Well, I mean, we all know. So... it was really the airline industry that architected the very first notion of a loyalty program. You think back to the early 1980s with the architecture of frequent flyer programs, which then you have kind of every industry and category on the planet that have now since, of course, created their version of what the airline industry had created. But it's evolving, and it's evolving significantly, especially when we look at the evolution behaviorally of the different age demographics that are coming in. And so here's a couple of things that I will say, because loyalty is certainly... the most precious asset that we have, and it comes in many forms.

So number one, we absolutely want to be the world's most loved loyalty program. And so if that is the aspiration, then we need to make sure that there are many facets to this program. So of course, your traditional frequent flyer program, which academically, it's a spend-and-get model of which the redemption is primarily with assets that exist along the travel ribbon. So very simply, it's like you spend this, you get this in terms of upgrades or future travel certificates. That evolved a bit over time. And so there were partnerships that, again, were from a travel ribbon standpoint across air, car, and hotel.

To now where we are today, which is how do we kind of expand the ecosystem of what we are rewarding our travelers with based on their purchasing with us? And so by that, you know, we live in a world today and we see this emerging with a lot of our younger demographics is that if there's a loyalty to us and there's an incredibly strong loyalty to Delta, our travelers are saying, "Well, there are other brands that also exist in my life. And how does Delta open up access to those brands through your channel for me as well?" One such example is our partnership with Starbucks. So one could say, "Well, that's not... That's not really part of your traditional air, car, and hotel travel ribbon." But many would argue, "But everybody needs their coffee to be able to make that travel experience possible." But it's not traditionally kind of in that ribbon. Our Starbucks partnership has performed beautifully for us, beautifully, especially amongst our Gen Z population who are representative of where our future travel growth is going to come from.

But we've also expanded by way of partnership into different categories as well. Entertainment: our partnership with Paramount Plus. Mobility: our partnership with T-Mobile. We're looking at retail and health and wellness because this is all part of our travelers' lifestyle. When we think about where we are transporting them to, it's many destinations and places in the world where these brands are very much a part of their life. We can continue to invest, and we will, in our category, but the opportunity for us is real category transcendence. And in order to achieve that, how do we start to become much more of an active part of our customers' lifestyle by making our loyalty program provide benefits that sort of bridge their spend with us into other brands that they love when they're on their travel journey with us?

And so that is just, it's so important. We announced the exclusive YouTube partnership at CES in January of this year. We'll be the only airline to carry exclusive YouTube content on board, which we'll start offering here in a couple of months. Uber will be our exclusive ride-share partner. There'll be an Uber Eats component that will exist within that. To even like onboard partnerships... Like we just introduced our relationship with Shake Shack on board, and oh my goodness, has that been taking off like wildfire in terms of like meal pre-select? The number of people on board who are, on the majority, selecting Shake Shack as their in-flight meal, it's been beyond the highest performing option that we've offered in history because it's a cool brand. It's different. It's unique. And that's a lot of what consumers want today and what helps to deepen their loyalty with us as their brand.

Mike: Right. No, it's, well, it's interesting. Yeah. And, you know, and then at the same time, I mean, again, back to the core, right? It's like ensuring the authenticity, right? That, you know, you want to, but you still have to kind of stay with... it's a balance, right? Because you still want to make sure that those relationships really, truly add something unique and add value, right? There's a risk that you can get so far out that you start to lose your sense of self too, in terms of what your brand is about. But I, you know, you're not there, but it could happen. But Shake Shack was a curveball that I thought was a great twist. I thought that was a great, you know, partnership to announce. So kudos on that one.

I'm always amazed at the operational part of those things though. I mean, it's like pulling that off is like, you know, just what it takes to make that happen, like deliver on the value. Yeah. I want that... The behind the scenes, man, that's... that's no small feat.

Alicia: Not at all. And that was, that was very important to us. Um, if... and same for Shake Shack, right? If this is not the same quality, um, that you would get in one of their locations, then it's just not going to be feasible for us to be successful with this on board. And the good news is we worked hard, we tested hard, and it's just been exceptional for us on board. And we're going to continue to have really fun brand collaborations like that.

But to your point, Mike, it's really important that these are real, true category adjacencies, ones that make sense and fit versus something that feels just so disconnected that even the best person can't message why this is sitting hand-in-hand. And there's many ways that you can kind of message why these are coming together, whether it be a brand that you experienced on your travel journey to a brand that really fits with us in terms of sharing values. Like there's lots of different ways to kind of think about, you know, how to bring an ecosystem of brands together that really feel like not only are we kind of part of the same world, but we believe in the same things and we help enable people's lifestyles and their journeys in very similar ways, but perhaps just executed a bit differently. And so we're really thoughtful about those brands because we want everything to certainly feel connected. And a lot of it is driven by precisely what we're hearing from our customers. It's like, we know that they're fans of this brand, and it's how do we bring them closer so that they're able to access that through Delta?

Mike: That's great. Well, I'm going to shift to our wrap-up question. On the personal level, this is our season three wrap-up. We say we're all faced with real and perceived chaos in our personal and professional lives. How do you cope with chaos? You're in a job that's very high profile and never know what each day is going to bring. How do you cope with your chaos personally?

Alicia: Well, it's recognizing kind of, you know, what always keeps you centered. So, you know, I always say I'm a mom and a wife first. And, you know, I happen to have, you know, a really awesome career that, you know, I've always believed... And I say this to my kids all the time. And I do actually think this is one moment where they listen to me, which is, you know, I do think I'm a better mom because of the career I have. And I think I'm a better professional because I'm a mom. Um, because there's... there's oftentimes, um, each demands kind of different qualities. Um, and so at the same time, if those qualities can coexist... like for example, you know, being very process-oriented and, you know, having a clear vision and, you know, being relentless in my pursuit of excellence... you know, to be able to run a household with kind of the same mentality, it puts my kids on a path to kind of, you know, believe in the power of hard work and believe in things like responsibility and accountability and knowing who you are and going for it.

And so that's how that translates on that side. And then on the other side, you got to have like a lot of patience and understanding and empathy, you know, as a parent. And having that quality brought into my career, you know, allows me to be a real people-first leader and being in touch with and responsive to people's needs and their wants and their desires and how I work to enable them. That's what is just the beautiful thing that, you know, I take to heart and it's sort of what keeps me centered. And, you know, to your question, you know, what helps me cope with the chaos? Like I live off of the juggle because it's rewarding, you know, to see how each can sort of benefit um from each other. And that... that's a fun... that's a fun position to be able to be in. And so just uh, it allows me to just appreciate and cope with the chaos every single day.

Mike: Great, great answer. I mean it really is. I mean, parenting certainly keeps you grounded. If there's one thing that keeps you grounded, it's your children putting you in your place.

Alicia: Yeah, it's like, wow. I mean, it's like the world has certainly changed from a parenting perspective. It's like I felt like when I grew up, you know, my parents were in control. And it's like I'm waiting for the day when I am in control of my household because my kids are running our household. What's happening?

Mike: You're going to have a long wait.

Alicia: I know. It's wonderful. Well, Alicia, it's been a pleasure. Thank you for coming on and sharing your insight. Really, really interesting and some really terrific insight about Delta and you and your role. So again, all the best and happy to have you.

Alicia: Oh, and again, it's been an absolute privilege. I have loved spending the time with you and thank you again for having me.

Mike: Alright, great.

Ed: Alright, thank you, Alicia. Alicia Tillman is the Chief Marketing Officer of Delta Airlines. Thank you, Alicia, for your time. Cheers.

Ed: Wow, great... a great interview, Mike. Really, um, just fascinating to see the perspective inside of marketing of such a massive, you know, infrastructure. I really enjoyed that. What were some of your key takeaways?

Mike: Yeah, I mean, I think it's interesting. I'm really... it's that, you know, I think the one point we were talking about, like, you know, finding that balance between, you know, wanting to do like so much in terms of, you know, the program and the, you know, the partnerships and the, you know, everything, but the importance of kind of keeping that genuine and grounded. Like because... we talk about, you know, genuine brands to me. Like, there's so many brands out there that are... it's not even about the age of the brand, it's kind of like, do you feel like a genuine connection to the brand? Do you really... do you feel like the people working there are truly trying to do the right thing and to, you know, live out that brand and that mission? And that's not easy to do. It's very hard to do actually, especially at the scale they have to do it. And I just, again, it's impressive, right? And it's like an amazing, you know, basically block of clay to work with from a marketing perspective, but also it's hard because you're always being tested. You're always being, you know, the leader of the airline industry. And so that comes with an incredible amount of responsibility. Everybody's watching you all the time.

And that's so, you know, again, I think it's just fascinating, you know, it's like to hear from her perspective, how she manages through that and how they do as a company. And as always, you know, a million business books have been written, but it's all top-down, man. You know, if the CEO, the leadership, if they haven't bought in and they're not doing it every day, then it doesn't happen. I mean, it's just...

Ed: Yeah, and they're clearly... look, they're clearly willing to take interesting and unique, you know, twists on, you know, with their brand. From the Sphere to Shake Shack, there's like curveballs, but then you stop and you think, you're like, "That really is kind of core to who Delta is and really could benefit me as a traveler." And so those are... those are two I think great examples of her influence, um, you know, on things so far.

Mike: Yeah, yeah. So again, just really good insight for sure.

Ed: All right, Mike, that is our show today. If you have a challenge in your business or want to better understand the chaotic world of travel, reach out to us at Travel Again to see how we can help bring clarity to your business, now backed by Focusrite data and research. We will see you back again during our next show in a few weeks. Mike, as always, great to see you.

Mike: Great to see you, Ed.

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