Welcome to Travel Again presents the weekly travel roundup covering the headwinds and tailwinds impacting the business of travel. Please welcome our hosts Mike McCormick and Ed Silver. Hello Mike. How you doing? Welcome to season 4 episode two.
Yeah, great to be here as always, Ed.
Yeah, it’s nice to see you. Oh man, do we have a timely guest today. This is a CEO of a brand that is right at the epicenter of business travel today. I’m excited for this one, Mike.
Yep, me too. Yeah, we’re like the backdrop that we keep talking about, writing about, advising clients about is we’re at the epicenter of a major foundational shift in the industry. And so it’s got a really interesting times for sure. But also just exciting times in terms of where the industry is going with all the players, new players, capital pouring in, really look the whole environment is changing and it’s exciting.
Yes, it is. So, with that, Mike, I’m just gonna bust right into the news. And I’ve got three categories of news and I might move around some articles within those categories. So, hold on to your hat as I move us through the news. Mike, the first category, and you knew I had to do it, is AI, artificial intelligence. And there was quite a bit of news in the travel space on this.
The first, and I’ll bring up the article, is Otto the agent came out of a 9-month closed beta and this assistant, this AI assistant, is backed by our friends at Madrona Ventures and former CEOs of Orbits, Expedia and Concur. Mike, what do you know about this particular travel assistant? What makes it different and why is this news?
Yeah. Well, the headline we had before was congratulations. It’s a bot, but it’s more than a bot. But it’s just funny. It’s like they brought it out as a new offering. I think interestingly enough and I think interesting from marketing perspective too is kind of giving it its own identity and its own entity in a sense of how it was formed and where it is. But it’s basically bringing a consumer traveler ready product for business travel. This has been something that they are bringing into all the elements of a brand new front end basically that customers can use for business travel and it’s really interesting.
This is the beginning of the next generation of what’s coming and it’s exciting. So, it’s exciting for the industry, sets a new standard. Obviously, it’s got some pretty heavy backing and some folks that know the travel space well. So, it’s an exciting part of the industry and another offering on the table.
Okay, the next one in a similar vein is that Mindtrip unveiled a new AI travel and events feature and announced more investment from AMEX Ventures, Capital One Ventures, and United Airlines Ventures. And Mindtrip does seem to be on a roll at least with fundraising. Mike, what’s going on with this company?
Well, again, another take on it, but our take on it was just again it was who’s behind it, right? It’s those brands coming in collaboratively getting behind a venture. Just another example of what’s happening in the industry—the money coming in, the strategies developing, the partnerships developing, and even collaboration in different areas between these different partners. It’s really interesting and good for Mindtrip. I mean that’s a nice heavyweight group behind them. Not just the money but it’s the old adage about smart money—where’s the money coming from and who’s behind it. So again, good for the industry. Another good case of where we’re going. And no, exciting again. Good for them.
Yep. And obviously, I mean, we could have pulled a dozen more articles on AI, but these two really seem to stand out because of who’s doing the investing. Interesting to watch.
Yes.
Okay. The next one I’d like to talk about, Mike, is one of our favorite topics: NDC or modern retailing. Let me pull up the article for the audience. United and Travelport collaborate to advance modern retailing technology. Notice the shift there. Co-developing NDC and modern retailing technology supports under a strategic agreement described as a new model of collaboration between an airline and a GDS. I’m not sure why it’s so new. Mike, give us some context here.
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Well, we don’t know what it is yet. So that’s the one thing to mention, but I think it’s an interesting collaboration given that United was really over the phases we’ve gone through—from the earlier NDC era to then it was all about offers orders and now we’ve relabeled it modern retailing. I always like the nuance of watching the marketing and the positioning and the messaging and where it’s going, but it’s kind of putting this label on it.
Giving some context of where they’re going to work together, but not a lot of detail at this point. But what it is interesting is that, again, this is a heavily negotiated position between the two entities and where you’ve got a GDS player trying to make an effort again to get themselves positioned to be a part of the new economy. So the nuance of it is kind of interesting. I smile because it’s a lot of the same. It’s some of the same but in another way they’re trying to basically broaden it a little more.
I think everyone’s trying to get a bit away from NDC because in terms of looking that as the be-all and end-all because as we well know now there is no one-size-fits-all for airlines. The dream of it being a standardization never really materialized, but it has advanced the capabilities and technologies and where the airlines certainly want to go in terms of how they price and position their product, right?
Okay. Thank you for that context. All right. The last group of articles and I have a couple for you are all in the experiences category. First, I saw that your newsletter this week was all about experiences, Mike, and I’ll read right from it. The next big battle in travel isn’t about where people sleep or how they get there. It’s about what they actually do once they arrive. So, tell us more about this particular article and why you chose experiences to focus on.
Well, it is the next kind of land grab. We see this with as new capabilities, technology and everything develops, right? This is an area that was never really—I mean it never really got to the place that the vision of the dream of where let’s go back 10 years, 20 years, of where we thought technology could take this sector. But now what we’re finding I think and where the money is certainly going there as well and placing bets in this category is that finally the technology could kind of catch up with the capability that’s required to really deliver experiences in a more robust fashion and the ability to do that in the leisure sector is huge, right?
It’s a huge untapped market. So much fragmentation, so much content out there. But again, another exciting area where you’re talking about unlocking like a whole new world in terms of not just revenues, but of experience—literally experiences people can have and where they’ll spend money. And it’s really I think again like Viator was one of the early pioneers in that area but now we’re seeing I think we’ll see another whole iteration of companies like and there’s a lot of them out there trying to tackle this space and try to be the next thing.
GetYourGuide is one of the ones that again they’re trying to IPO. They did push it off until next year. Just looking at the more—that’s more about the IPO environment than it is about them in particular—but they’re clearly again another big bet in this area but trying to leverage today’s technology to deliver the product. So again more exciting stuff and this is all great for the industry ultimately. I mean it’s disruption.
Yeah I mean I just love this I love this segment I love this category I do think it’s ripe for investment and innovation in particular working with a lot of hotels—how do they add experiences on? It’s a really critical battle area and Mike in late breaking news let me share this news right now. Expedia group announces agreement to acquire Ticketmaster to expand global activities and experiences. So this is just this morning Mike so wow.
Another example right? And this is part of the premise we’ll talk about this today with our special guests but I just think there’s—his earlier comments and ones we’ll talk about—I think we’ve got this is just the tip of the iceberg of what’s coming. Let’s put it that way.
Okay. Speaking of our guest, I will just move right to an article that I think will be interesting for him. AMEX GBT reportedly exploring a sale. Mike, AMEX GBT, according to Bloomberg, is suggesting the TMC is considering selling up after a tough run on the stock market, but no certainty of a transaction. Obviously, I have not seen anyone confirm this from any official channel, but news has been reported. So, what do you think of it?
Well, again, I think it is a testament. We’ll talk about this today. It’s like I think that again, just smart to put that out there. I think this is more to me about the fact that anything is possible with where we’re going with the amount of change we’re having. And I think again we—this is a business that they’re the leader in their category. They have a tremendous client list. They’re the largest player in the space. Of course, they should be exploring any and all options. I don’t think it even requires a press release, right? It’s more of just—but I think it’s interesting about the times we’re in, right? Again, it’s a reflection of what I think 2026 has to hold ahead. So, again, exciting stuff.
All right, and that is the news for today, Mike. We will be right back with our guest. Mike, thanks to our sponsor, Safe Travel RX, an app that takes the worry off your itinerary, providing travel peace of mind with emergency response components, travel security, and risk management, especially for those traveling internationally. It includes 24/7 global concierge assistance. Landed in the hospital in China, forgot your prescription, wallet stolen. Safe Travel RX is your prescription for better, safer travel.
Yeah. And they added a new jump the line feature it’s called. And it’s basically, you’re in a situation where you need help. You’ve got an existing reservation, your flight’s canceled. These are the days when airline A won’t walk you over to airline B to get you onto a better, more convenient flight. Those days are long gone. But this is a service that is really for the person that’s out there that doesn’t have the kind of coverage that comes with our—well, for example, the company of our guest today, right? That’s—it’s for those types of travelers that are just—need help and need the assurance and this is a good company that can bring you that. So it’s exciting for them and again another part of segment of the marketplace that needs representation and they’re out there trying to make a name in that space.
Okay, so thanks Mike. Download it today to discover the power of Safe Travel RX. Safe Travel RX, your prescription for better travel. Mike, now on to our guest. We are going to bring on Paul Abbott. Paul Abbott leads American Express Global Business Travel as CEO, guiding one of the most influential players in corporate travel through a period of major industry change. Since taking the role in 2019, he has steered GBT through the pandemic, the SPAC listing, multiple acquisitions, and the rapid evolution of travel technology and supplier dynamics. With over three decades career spanning aviation, payments, and corporate services, Paul brings a uniquely broad perspective on how business travel is being reshaped and what it will take to lead in the next chapter. Please join me in welcoming Paul Abbott to the stage. Paul, it’s nice to have you on the stage. Thanks for joining us on the Travel Again podcast.
Paul, how you doing?
Yeah, doing very well. Nice to see you, Mike. Ed, thanks for the opportunity.
Yeah, well, certainly exciting times. I mean, I can’t believe it’s been two years now since your IPO. And I guess to kick things off, if you look back on your couple years since you went public, what stands out? I mean, in terms of success, even some surprises along the way, how would you characterize the last couple years at AMEX GBT?
Yeah, actually it’s been three years. But I would say that really what stands out is certainly from my perspective, we’re a very different company now than we were five years ago. Certainly very different company than we were three years ago. We’ve changed our vision for the company. We changed our strategy. We’ve changed our investments. We’ve invested over a billion dollars in our products and services. And I think what stands out for me is we’ve done exactly what we said we were going to do, which is we’ve transformed the business from a services business with some technology into frankly a leading B2B software and services company.
5 years ago we had 60% of our transactions coming through digital channels but only 15% of them were actually on our own software. Now we have over 80% of our transactions coming through digital channels and AMEX GBT on a standalone basis has over 60% of the transactions coming through our own software. By the end of 2026 with the rollout of Complete—which will probably be actually by the end of Q1 2026—we’ll have close to 80% of our transactions going through our own software. So I think what really stands out from my perspective is that we are now without question a leader in both software and services. And as a result, if you look back over the last three years, our profits have increased every year, our margins have increased every year. And I think that shows that the path that we’re on is the right path.
Yeah, I would agree. I mean one of the things as you said that—I mean it does—the level of investment that’s required—I mean that’s not lost I think on certainly us and the industry—that it is—to innovate and to really put the systems in place that required, it is a big money game. I mean that’s the obvious, right? I mean it—and that to go through that transformation that was no small feat. It was a big bet to get to where you are today. So when you look forward—like you kind of said like now those now you start to get to the bit of the long tail of capturing the rest of that transaction—where do you go from here? Like what where do you see the metric going and how would you want to gauge performance for your company in the next few years now?
Yeah, look to a certain extent it’s a continuation of the path that we’re on. I think what very excited about as I look forward to 2026 is a number of the critical milestones that we were looking to achieve are now behind us and done. The CWT transaction of course is closed and that has tremendous potential to grow the business and also generate value through synergy capture. The strategic alliance with Concur again is a very important strategic move for the company and that’s in place.
We also are doing a relaunch called next-gen Egencia in the first quarter which will launch Egencia with an LLM search and agentic search experience and also will launch Egencia with full integration into Concur Expense really transforming that into a travel and expense platform. And also I think you’ll see in 2026 and beyond a real scaling of the AI initiatives that we’ve deployed in 24 and 25 both to improve the customer experience and also to improve productivity. So, we’re honestly we’re very excited about the position that we’re in where we’ve got a number of really important levers for longer term transformation of the company that are in place and position us very, very well for the future.
Can you tell us more about the Concur component in this? You’ve brought on a lot of technology in the past: KDS, Neo, Concur, Egencia. How do you rationalize all that and then make this big move with Concur and how do you kind of put all that together?
Yeah, look, it’s a good question. I think the strategy is exactly what I’ve been saying for five years. We want to be a leading B2B software and services company. I certainly believe and we believe that the share of digital transactions is only going one way and that’s up. We know that we’ll be in a world where there’s more fragmented content where AI is going to open up new channels. And so you’ve got to do a few really important things, right? You’ve got to bring the content together in a single platform. You’ve got to bring the data together to really enable AI-powered experiences for sure.
You’ve got to bring the channels together, right? And what I mean by channels is it’s not just travel counselor and OBT—channels is voice, it’s digital, it’s chat, it’s the app, it’s agentic AI in Zoom and Slack and Teams and Agentforce and Microsoft Copilot. And so you’ve got to bring the channels together. You’ve got to bring the content together. You’ve got to bring the experiences together. And in order to do that, you have to control the software and the services, right? You’ve got to bring those things together. And that’s exactly what we’ve done with Neo. That’s exactly what we did with Egencia. And now it’s exactly what we’re doing with SAP Concur.
It is essentially creating that same sort of closed-loop ecosystem where we can bring the channels together, bring the data together, bring the experiences together and strategically we think that’s critical for this next chapter in terms of how the industry is going to evolve. So that’s one part of it. Another part of it frankly is it’s exactly what customers have been asking us to do.
Customers saying, “Look, we value the environment, our ERP relationship, we value the Concur expense relationship, but the travel experience could be better.” And we want a modernized, better UX on Concur, similar—as good as if not better even than Egencia and then Neo. So, we’re going to do that. We’re going to invest in improving the UX, which is exactly what customers have asked for.
Customers have said, “Look, no more finger-pointing on content. We want everybody to come together to give us the best content in industry and access to the full AMEX GBT and the full Concur content.” So again, that’s what we’re going to do. We’re going to make sure that the customer gets access to all of the content. And customers have said, we want a joined-up relationship that is working effectively. We want AI-powered experiences. We want access to exclusive offers and all of those things are what we’re developing and delivering with Complete and many of them are already available as of November. So, strategically it’s very important and it’s consistent with everything that I’ve said for many years. But also it just it’s what customers have been asking us to do.
Yeah. Well, one of the things I’ll just say I give you kudos and actually to Concur too because what I liked about it even when aside from everything you’re talking about—the announcement itself—I like that it was very candid about putting the collective relationship first in terms of where energy is going to be focused, investments can be made. And for Concur to come out and say like, “Look, we have to put the money and the effort and the prioritization where we’re in this partnership,” and I—that was unique. That’s not something you normally see and I thought that was really powerful and it gives some honesty to what’s to come.
I keep coming back to this but it is a big player game here. These—the investment again back to that—the investment that’s required, the capital is required. Things are moving so quickly on the other side of it. You talk about being in service and software and needing both pieces. I don’t—outside the travel industry I don’t think there’s a real appreciation, understanding and truly evaluation for the complexities of what’s required to do that in travel. It’s really kind of amazing to me at times because even your competitor recently went public with an IPO and with that intention of achieving that valuation—it hasn’t happened yet. I think it will because I think—and I think that’s the other thing that’s exciting about what’s to come. We wrote about the fact that everyone should be at this point—we want the travel industry on the whole to succeed because I think that this is one where there could be growth. I think there should be growth in valuations because I think again finally maybe like a lot of the work you’re doing, a lot of the technology that’s being developed will finally bring that understanding of like what’s required here and I just don’t think it’s been certainly from people outside of travel.
Shifting gears for a minute, talking back to the supplier piece—so now you know folk rightly so customer first—talk about what’s this mean? Where do you see this going in terms of supplier relationships—airline, hotel, ground—where do you see the future going in terms of how you work with them and how it might change?
Look, I think it’s a similar picture. We offer suppliers—well let me start by saying the most obvious and important thing is that we’re here to create value for customers, we’re also here to create value for suppliers. And the base needs to create value for suppliers and for customers in order for the ecosystem to work. And what we offer suppliers is access to the highest concentration of premium customers in the world.
We offer to the most valuable marketplace in travel. Now that’s extremely important and extremely valuable. But we also have to distribute their products and services in a way that’s efficient and also a way that’s effective. And by effective, I mean whether it’s embracing modern retailing, whether it’s finding ways to improve personalization to retail and sell their products and services in a way that achieves their distribution objectives.
It requires investments in NDC. It requires investments in personalization and investments in AI in order to ensure that you are creating a really effective modern retailing environment for suppliers. So many of the same themes around having the ability to invest in and develop the software solutions and the experience and the marketplace create value for customers but they also create significant value for suppliers.
Yeah. So Paul, just on the NDC front, I mean, we’ve been talking for a long time about our frustrations with it from the perspective that the customer really doesn’t feel the benefit of it. No matter how many announcements and PR releases we see, none of them really seem to deliver on a customer benefit. Do you think you’re on the edge there to be able to deliver real kind of customer experiences that are different through modern retailing at this stage?
Well, look, the potential is there for sure. I think your point is fair that we haven’t perhaps seen as much of the personalized offers, dynamic pricing, and the bundling and packaging of offers to customers that NDC enables. But I think that’s because the focus has obviously been to establish the infrastructure and build scale and get NDC to operate effectively in a managed travel environment.
I think the potential is there. I think it’s fair to say that that’s perhaps yet to be realized. But that doesn’t stop us making sure that we build out the capabilities because I think it will come. It’s just a question of time. And might be moving slower than some people might like, but certainly our focus is very clear. We are investing significantly in making sure that we’re scaling NDC wherever possible.
Particularly in the channels that we control. I mean, it’s been frankly easier for us to really adopt and scale NDC when we control the channels—Neo, Egencia, of course, now going forward that will be the same for Complete. So back to your previous question around why SAP Concur—it has been more challenging to adopt, integrate and scale NDC in channels that we don’t control because we don’t control the product roadmap. But now we’ll have the ability to scale NDC more broadly across not just our own proprietary solutions but also Complete as well.
Look, we’ve got over 20 airlines operating on NDC now. We’ve got, I think, 16,000 clients with access to NDC content and customers that are on Egencia and Neo—you’ve got basically close to 100% of customers with access to content. So I think we’re at a point now where the infrastructure is there, the capabilities are there. And I think it’s a fair challenge to say, okay, in 26 and 27, how’s it going to deliver more value for customers? I think that’s a fair challenge.
Well, so we have a season 4 wrap-up question for you. It’s a little broad—you can go with it wherever you want. But, sitting from your perspective, are there any areas in travel, media, technology that you find really compelling or maybe ripe for reinvention? We’re certainly at an exciting time now. I liken it to the first the early online days of moving—this is where we are again. It’s exciting. But from your perspective, where does your mind go?
Yeah, I mean, look, it’s an obvious one, but it’s an incredibly powerful one. I think AI has the potential to reinvent the managed travel experience and make it materially better than it is today. And I think that’s true for the traveler. I think it’s true for the travel manager and I think it’s true for the travel consultant. We’re already seeing clear examples of that.
We’re already seeing tangible examples of how it can create a simpler more personalized experience for the traveler. We’re seeing examples of how it can really finally take all the data that exists in this business, turn it into powerful real-time insights and analytics for travel managers to really be more strategic and powerful in how they run their program. And we’re certainly seeing examples of how it can automate more routine tasks, make our travel counselors more productive and more effective.
Look, I just think it’s such an exciting area for us and we’re fortunate. We’ve been using machine learning and AI for several years in Egencia and Neo to personalize the experience and the software platform and to actually shape the presentation of the content. But now we have the ability to look at doing really sort of hyper-personalization. We also have the ability to bring in data from different sources that traditionally was hard to do.
Being able to hook up to let’s say destination information, being able to hook up and bring in calendar information, being able to bring in even restaurant recommendations—these were things that would have been a really complex heavy lift that now actually with agentic AI you think we can bring in these data sets to really change the experience. You start to think about actually you really could have an intelligent trip where you have this real-time monitoring of my trip and disruptions are identified and managed while I’m on the trip without me even noticing.
The combination of generative AI and agentic AI has just such tremendous potential. And I think the reason I’m more excited about it now than I was 12 months ago is because we have pilots operating with customers in Slack and we have an agentic AI pilot just launching with another customer in Teams. We have now AI assisting around 40% of our voice interactions. We have AI reading and starting to interpret emails now starting to curate offers from those emails. And we have our product and engineering teams actually using AI to do some of the more basic code.
So it’s an obvious answer, but I think AI can certainly materially improve the managed travel experience and make it more intuitive, make it more personalized, but also bring our services to the traveler’s sort of channel of choice which I think is an exciting set of developments and I think we’ll see some material steps forward in 26.
Great answer and I think you’re right. I mean and it’s again just—it couldn’t be more exciting time. Really can reinvent I think a lot of areas where like you said they were they were considered long-tail kind of areas before that the investment wouldn’t quite deliver the result—it wouldn’t be worth it, right? It was too much of a heavy lift. And now you start having the ability to open up these areas again and say, “Wait a minute, this isn’t such a heavy lift anymore, it’s actually doable.” And that is great, and great opportunity too for you to capture more spend, capture more capabilities.
Well, Paul, appreciate you coming on. Great insight. Certainly you’re in a unique position to kind of see as this all unfolds. So, best of luck to you and all the folks at AMEX GBT.
All right. Thank you very much. Appreciate the opportunity and happy holidays to all.
Thank you, Paul. Thank you for being with us today. Paul Abbott is CEO of American Express Global Business Travel. Paul, thank you for joining us today.
Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Bye.
Well, Mike, man almighty. I know we didn’t get a chance to ask him about the reported sale, but my impression here is AMEX GBT is sitting in the catbird seat, man. They have all the assets. They’ve struck an incredible deal with Concur. They have all the tools. They have AI in action. Man, it seems like he’s in a good position right now.
Yeah, it’s interesting and I touched on it. I still think certainly the market doesn’t and I don’t think the general larger investment community really truly understands and is valuing their company and that whole sector in the way they should. Because you look at the investment that’s being made, you look at the potential where this can all go and I think it’s exciting but I think it represents significant growth opportunity.
We’ll see how it goes but hopefully that will change because I think speaking for a bigger industry issue, the better we can see the rising tide of valuations and everything is just great for the industry. It’ll keep investment pouring in. It’ll create better customer experiences. It’s all good, right? But it’s not without its challenges. Certainly we still—as we know—this is a highly complex industry technically with all the links in the chain that have to be represented and you’re managing people. You still have to add the human element to it all. But that’s why we love the industry.
Paul’s great. He again got a good, really good perspective. Really grounded. Grounded is a great word, too. Anyway, good to have on board.
All right, Mike. And that is our show. If you have a challenge in your business, reach out to us at Travel Again Advisory to see how we can help bring clarity to your business strategy and outcomes. Mike, I’ll see you back here again for our next episode.
Sounds great, Ed. Happy holidays. Happy holidays.