Welcome to Travel Again presents, the weekly travel Roundup covering the headwinds and tailwinds impacting the business of travel. Please welcome our hosts, Mike McCormick and Ed Silver. How are you doing today, Mike? Good, how are you doing, Ed? Good. Welcome to our episode five of the podcast. Yep, already episode five but ready. Yeah, I put my Philly Jersey on again today. We just have to start with the sporting news, of course, but uh we’re 30 and 13, a quarter of the way through the season, best record in baseball, first team to get 30 wins, one of the fastest to get to 30 in some time, so uh life is good. We’re heading into summer, and the Phillies are playing great ball right out of the shoot, so we can’t beat that.
Good stuff, good stuff to be a Philly fan. I don’t know that our guest today is a very sporty fella, but you can try to engage him in some sports talk if you need to. That’s okay, we got a lot to talk about, though. Okay, so just one thing before we begin: next week we’ll be in Dallas for our live Road Show event on May 22. It is a must-see event. Register today to attend. It’s at the Southwest Airlines Headquarters, and we’re excited to have them host. You must register to attend, and it is complimentary to attend. Yep, looking forward to that, Mike. Yep, me too.
All right, let’s get started today with the news, Mike. Today I start with an article from… it was actually covered in a number of places. I’ll show the Reuters article: “Major airlines sue the Biden Administration over fee disclosure rules.” What’s going on here? Well, so I think you know again, well publicized was the Biden Administration putting in place with the DOT these new rules about kind of in two areas. One area was payment for disruption, so you know, requiring Airlines to make accommodations when a traveler is disrupted in some way due to flight cancellations, etc, or baggage lost, and making it more of a standardized way that it’s approached and a requirement for airlines to do that, which is very positive for consumers.
The other part of the ruling that went in place is about fee disclosure, meaning we’re going to adopt an approach that’s already done in Europe which is basically that you have to disclose all the fees upfront so when you’re making a purchase you understand what they are and things like… and then you get into real gray area things where like you know you can buy luggage, pre-buy it online, but then you get to the airport and it costs more or you didn’t know and it’s like creating, you know again, clarity for consumers so they know what they’re buying.
Well the airlines together behind an organization called Airlines for America, but it’s the trade association representing all the airlines or all major US Airlines anyway, went back and filed a suit, you know suing the DOT and saying that this is basically egregious and terrible—meaning the fee disclosure part—and you know overreach and unwarranted and consumers don’t need to know. It’s a very interesting approach and one that I would say again continues to be one of frustration because again, what we’re trying to accomplish, what the government’s trying to accomplish, and they should, is they’ve got to represent consumers.
The airlines enjoy a number of protections around the way their businesses are run. It’s not a free market in the airline world. There’s a lot of, you know, gates, roots, regulations all around the way they have to operate and the way they compete. So you know, to say that the consumer needs protection in these areas, that we should be following some of these basic kind of things in terms and things we’ve fought for in the past—we talked about these multiple times around things such as you know the three-hour tarmac rule and other things like no voice calls on planes here in the states, other things that are good for the consumer—and then things like this that again, guaranteed payments for disruption, making sure that everyone understands what they’re buying, no hidden fees, all those things are I think very positive, good for the industry and good for travel.
It’s frustrating to me when you see these, like lobbying, like trade association A4A, which is the name for Airlines for America, you know, counter-suits like this. You’re like, it’s hard to get let’s say, have any compassion and certainly any real support as a consumer to say wait a minute, like why, what would be… why do they think that’s overreach? It’s not. And the idea is to create a common set of rules that they all have to follow, so it takes it away from being a competitive issue. It’s not about who does it and who doesn’t do it. If they’re all required to do it, then it’s a level playing field, and that’s what you’re looking for, and it’s good for the consumer.
So again, we’ll follow this one to see where it goes. Interestingly enough, there was one airline that did not participate, and it was Southwest, and they are very… they say they continue to be in communication, but they did not participate in the lawsuit, which I think is an interesting omission from the group. Yep, no baggage fees there, and obviously that’s one of the reasons why they don’t feel they need to participate. Yep.
Okay, thanks, Mike, for the perspective. Our next article is actually a series of articles, and literally, AI this week was everywhere. On Monday, OpenAI held their spring update and introduced GPT-4o, followed by Tuesday, where Google made major updates to its advanced large language model, Gemini, and to say that there was a little bit of news here is an understatement. It was covered everywhere. Any thoughts on this, Mike? Wel,l no, this one’s for you, Ed. So let’s talk a little bit, let’s turn the tables here again. All this news, everything that’s happening, you know again, what… I guess two questions: like, what does this all mean? Is it… what is it going to do in terms of how we’re all affected? And then what does it mean for travel? Is this going to accelerate you know AI use in different travel forums, areas, businesses? What does this all mean?
Well, look, between the two sets of announcements, there are some overlapping similarities, although I would encourage our listeners to go and watch some of the videos that have come out that at least summarize each of them, because there’s a lot embedded in there. OpenAI, highly multimodal, meaning you can use voice, text, and vision; it can see your screen, and it can make commentary on it. It was almost like watching the movie Her if you’ve seen that with Joaquin Phoenix, where the assistant is talking, and you’re interacting with her, and it’s a lovely voice, she has a kind of a really nice voice, but it is amazing how many things you can do with it.
Then on the side of Google, embedding all of that powerful functionality in everything that Google does is where they are headed, and that includes search, that includes Gmail, that includes everything you do, you know, across the Google stack, which by the way is a lot. You do a lot with Google, whether you realize it or not. That also goes across their Android devices. It is also multimodal for them. They showed off a number of voice-type assistants, and I would say a lot more is to come. You can be sure that Microsoft, one of the other big monsters here, which uses OpenAI tools behind the scenes, will come out shortly with amazing features built into the Microsoft stack.
So then your question: how does all this play out for Google? Well, in for travel, I would be sure, and in fact, they had one demo that showed off itinerary building. Everybody is always talking about itinerary building as one of the killer apps that could come out of this and they did do a demo on stage of blending some chat functionality in terms of asking it to build a multi-day trip specific around my calendar because it has access to my calendar, things I’ve done in the past, using all of that to help build out a dynamic trip asking do I want to have dinner around a meeting I might have. And so, very cool type travel functionality could come out of that, but I would still say on both OpenAI and Google, I would say a lot is still to come.
A lot of this is amazing to watch grow up, but not quite there yet from a travel perspective, but I would argue it’s coming. The question is: is it here yet? No, not from my perspective. Is it coming? Yes, it’s definitely coming. And then just as one aside: the next day, the new CEO of Expedia had her first day at work as Expedia group launched a new AI assistant called Romie, and so they began to show off what they believe they can do using their data in this new AI assistant meant to help travelers with research, booking, and in-trip services. So a little bit of testing from Expedia. They had done some testing previously, and a little more coming together using these tools. So I would say look, the future is bright in terms of what can be. It’s not here yet, but there’s an awful lot to watch, and it’s an awful fun space to be keeping an eye on right now.
Well, will the new AI travel assistant be able to tell me how much my bags are going to cost, because apparently, the airlines don’t want that to happen? Probably won’t be able to tell you that, but there was some news. Yeah, there was some news about AI assistants helping with itinerary disruption and being more accurate in describing what is wrong, you know with in terms of your disruption. United was piloting some of that, and has been kind of working it through their system, so you don’t get the “your flight is delayed, your flight is canceled” and nothing. You just you get a “hey, this is what’s really happening,” which is you know again seemingly low fruit in terms of opportunity areas, but again apparently not how much your bags cost, but other than that we’re we’re rolling.
Well, spoiler alert for travel again: I mean, we’ll definitely be spending a lot more time on AI, and we’re gearing up for some big things, you know, in terms of where we’re going to focus and look at the intersection of AI and travel, which, like you said, is very much in its infancy. I don’t know if you could call it that yet, I don’t even think I don’t think we’re in infancy yet. It sounds like we’re just you know, just dabbling around the edges a little bit as we’re ready to take off.
Okay Mike, next article is in anticipation of our guest, and so I actually mentioned this last week, but I didn’t show the article, we didn’t get to talk about it in depth, but pay later lenders have an issue with credit bureaus. The New York Times reported this, and it was also discussed in an NBC News article. Give some context to our viewers around what this issue is, and then we’ll talk about it with our guest.
Yeah so so this is a good lead-in because I think one is interesting because it’s part of a general trend about doing some you know buy now pay later things. Both were the article… the other article you mentioned in the NBC article was about how you know younger generations are using this very much as kind of like micro kind of bridge financing for all different things, right? Looking at these because you’re not doing a hard hit on your credit, you’re taking, you know relatively smaller amounts, being able to stretch out payments, bridge bridge you know when you need funding in certain ways and it’s just you know ways that again it’s creating a lot more frequency in terms of numbers or types of transactions, right?
So it’s interesting, and now the credit bureaus are starting to wake up to it and say Hey, you know, maybe certain areas we need to be, you know, getting more involved, maybe it should be a hard hit on your credit, maybe it should be you know documented reported on your credit. And I think there’s a you know there there’s some certainly some healthy debate here about whether that should be the case or not as opposed to you know some of the ways that it can be pretty draconian for consumers today when it comes to things on their credit rating that you know and the impact of them and the length of the impact of them when they’re just part of like normal ways that you’re trying to you know live life and and uh you know spend your money etc. So interesting and a good lead-in to our guest today, that Tom Botts, who’s the CCO of Uplift, which is a model based on buying now, paying later for travel. And we’ll get into all that in that sector of the marketplace today with our one-on-one interview, so I’m looking forward to that one.
All right, we will be right back with our guest. Well uh this one is just one again we’re we talked about Southwest Airlines and now we’re heading down they’re hosting our Road Show event at their headquarters but I guess couple things: one is we want to thank them again for hosting, it’s fantastic and it’s uh you know again another way that they are giving back to the industry which they have in the past. Southwest was a really great supporter of our travel again project during the pandemic, which is how this all was born you know years ago and um you know again just culturally, they’re just such a terrific organization, the way they treat their people and then it shows in terms of the service levels they provide, the way you see it with their staff.
And again, just thanks again to them, I think it’s great um you know they they take a you know they always they always have seem you know really do have a great approach, even within the industry, to us working in the industry. They’re a terrific group to work with, so I thought you know definitely worth calling them out today and again thanking them for their support of you know travel again and now travel again advisory.
Okay, thanks, Mike. Next up is Tom Botts. Tom is the chief commercial officer for Uplift, which was acquired by Upgrade late last summer. Tom is a travel industry executive, investor, and board member with 30-plus years of experience in the travel industry across OTAs, consulting, airlines, and hospitality. Also, for the record, Tom, Mike, and I were part of a group that started a consultancy together, and we’ve known Tom a long time. Please welcome to the stage, Tom Botts.
Thanks, Ed and Mike, nice to see you. Tommy, I’m a little concerned that you think I’m not sporty enough to be on this show. Um, you know I am from Boston, and I think the Celtics are doing pretty well, and I live in New York now, and in honor of my daughter Camille, I’ve actually become a Yankees fan, and good for you, the Yankees are also in first place, Mike. Yes, they are but but they have 28 wins, not 30, just for the record. You know better than last season yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I don’t think of you as sporty Tom, but maybe you are every once in a while. I can turn on the charm, there you go.
Well let’s let’s let’s dive in. So you know you’ve been a part of uh Uplift now for how many years? Seven years. Wow, wow, that is fantastic. I mean, really, I mean, certainly a key growth area of travel. I love to see when you know different, again, different models kind of take shape in the industry, helping grow travel. I think you know again you could say that certainly this sector, the part you know the the buy now pay later aspects of it have fueled uh travel growth, and certainly you know travel growth as this part of this let’s say explosion of leisure travel coming out of the pandemic. I think you guys you know certainly saw some pretty serious upticks in your business as a result, but maybe, uh just start off by telling us a little bit about Uplift. What do consumers… what do you think consumers find you know attractive, like why? Like what what why did they come to you, and then ultimately too also why does suppliers partner with you? Because I know you have a lot of you know you’ve really developed a lot of uh really active uh uh supplier partnerships as well.
Yeah, thanks, Mike. I mean, you know this business has grown exponentially even before the pandemic. You know it’s it’ll be a you know it is a multi-billion dollar business that we’ve really grown from essentially nothing um you know, across literally hundreds of partners, including you know, excited to hear you’re at Southwest next week. Southwest is one of our you know deepest oldest and and uh certainly most thoughtful partners along with you know other great brands in the industry such as United, Carnival, Norwegian Cruise Line, Wyndham, Choice uh in the hotel space and a number of other brands uh you know that literally hundreds of other brands um and and you know it’s it’s it’s a great model for consumers.
It allows consumers to uh you know take the trip of their dreams and and you know kind of I mean it’s kind of why we’re all in the travel industry right? I mean, we’re about making people… allowing them to enjoy life and take the trips they’ve wanted to take, and you know, take their kids to Universal or wherever it may be and and that’s, you know, kind of what we do. And we do it in a thoughtful and respectful way, right? And that you know we’re not in the business of giving people loans that they can’t pay back, that frankly doesn’t work with our business model. And you know it’s been uh very effective for our partners in helping them grow conversion and revenue um, you know, for a long time now, and we’re an integral, you know really uh integral part of their marketing right. This is really a marketing tool much more than just a form of payment right.
We touched on it with the articles we just mentioned, where you know credit bureaus are starting to you know make some noise. You know there’s I think… I don’t know whether that’s being triggered by just this sheer you know the size of your business but aside but also a number of other businesses uh and industries that kind of have adopted some of the same you know payment payment uh you know technology and models right. What’s what do you how do you respond to that? What do you where does where that where do you think that line should be?
Yeah look uh Uplift has uh for for several years now reported uh transactions uh to the credit bureau so we we believe strongly in that. Um you know we think it’s good for the credit ecosystem, we think it’s good for uh consumers and and again back to you know we’re all about responsible lending, that is you know core to our DNA. Um it was core to you know our acquire Upgrade’s uh DNA and and and so you know we’re about responsibility and and and and making sure that we are lending responsibly and being able to fully understand what a consumer’s you know uh credit stack looks like, to use Capital One’s term: what’s in their wallet right?
Um is important to us to be able to make uh you know thoughtful decisions about extending credit um because again back to the you know fundamental core tenant of the business is I don’t want to give people loans they can’t pay back right. That’s not good business, um it’s not good morally and frankly it’s it’s not good business for us either right. Um we you know our suppliers uh are are not on the hook for loans that go bad, those are on us um and so you know we want to be thoughtful about this. So again we’ve always reported, um we think that’s important. It’s it’s also you know I think somewhat due to our nature of our deep focus on travel you know our average order value is is considerably larger than anyone else in the space right.
You’re buying a you know a Carnival cruise, you’re talking about a couple thousand dollars or a family of four on Southwest even if they’re not paying bag fees uh you know we’re still talking about you know it can be you know seven 800 bucks right and even more now inflation and everything else. So again we we want to understand what’s out there, we want to report these loans. And the other thing it does is you know by reporting these loans it it helps consumers build their credit rating right. I mean that’s right we want you know people to to to do so.
What the what is like a typical transaction look like? Like you said like terms of like you know it might be somebody you again more likely it’s a higher transaction value where they have the need to spread the payments out but what’s like the length? Like what’s an kind of a standard like length of the loan period? Like what’s that look like in terms of… yeah so you know I mean importantly you know we we sit on our partners’ websites and in their call centers right so we don’t have a standalone you know you can come to uplift.com and learn about it but you can’t actually make a transaction there right.
We’re not an OTA, we’re not any of those kinds of things right so we are embedded you know in the booking path at United or Southwest or Frontier or Spirit uh you know uh Emirates etc. Um and the consumer goes through the booking path um they are uh immediately scored uh by our our proprietary algorithm and then you know given three offers right uh of of credit and those can range in term length from you know as short as three months to as long as even 24 months. And that’s obviously dependent on uh the transaction size um and that also then allows the consumer to really choose what’s affordable to them right. And within that window of of of three months to 24 months and there’s all various terms in the middle there, either or 24 it could be 9 it could be 12 18 um etc.
And so that gives customers a lot of flexibility you know. The other thing that is is really important to the model is for uh suppliers to be able to offer uh 0% uh interest, so where the uh cost of the interest is actually moved from the consumer to the supplier. Um and you know that’s a significant portion of our business today um and you know what that does is it enables suppliers again to open the funnel, broaden their appeal uh to consumers and and different segments of consumers but also to to really do some interesting things again back to this being a form of marketing not just a form of payment um that enables them to you know think about shares shift and think about you know where they can offer 0% to move demand right. Literally to move demand from you know if if we’re talking about the Cancun Hotel market right?
We have a great partner in in in Apple Vacations which is owned by Hyatt um that uses 0% very effectively to you know target specific hotels um where they want to move share from from one to another um and that’s been very effective for them and you know we have airlines that do similar things, cruise lines… NCL is again very effective in using 0% as a way to drive demand into soft spots.
Well and you you know in there you really hit on that point about you know the role in terms of helping the supplier community drive better conversion, which is not coincidentally you know when we talk about NDC you know with airlines uh you know hotel pricing and everything that’s changing in that environment too. All these things in really fundamentally are about better conversion right? You know increasing that transaction value you know personalizing the uh the approach um and like you said the way you’re embedding that into the path, you’re kind of you know giving that option at a time when the you know they’re making a real value decision about you know household cash flow. Like I’ve got you know I know I can afford the trip but you know geez wouldn’t it be nice especially at 0 percent interest to be able to say okay I don’t have to like come up with the full amount like now, I don’t have to tie up all my funds, I can plan for it a little better.
And even if you know look at and again at at you know at a zero interest model it’s really it really makes it a lot more attractive especially on those big ticket items. And you know we talk about all the time about you know all different ways where it’s like okay what can we do to help enable and you know generate and drive more travel in the industry just overall? Like you’re increasing the size of the pie and that’s great stuff. I mean that you know anytime we’re our headwinds and tailwinds every week are about you know what are we doing to help the industry and what you know what what where are we putting up these kind of sometimes really artificial roadblocks to doing it but this is the exciting stuff.
You weave in AI and different ways that you can enable the you know give people better ways to to find you know create more options. It’s all good stuff it’s really interesting um but man you know as always with this they always talk about well you know oh this is like this new thing this new thing. You’ve been working on for seven years, it’s like this isn’t… well as as you know the supplier community is not always the fastest moving uh community right and so you know it takes time right? Uh it does does we had to build the product uh we had to you know get the uh our partners to agree and test and learn and you know now it’s an important part of of their mix.
Well one thing I did want to ask you, I know this isn’t like in the necessarily in the Uplift category but I’m drawing off of your hotel experience because when we all met uh Ed and I were at Cendant uh the big conglomerate of brands including what we now know is Travelport and and uh um well it back then it was Travelport and Orbitz and and and which is Wyndham Hotel Group and Avis Budget conglomeration it was. But we knew you when you were at Starwood which you have to be over 40 I think to know what Starwood is or was um but now it’s just was was absorbed and uh inquired by Marriott and a big part of the Marriott family.
But back then that’s when we first met and got to know you. You’ve been you know in and around the hotel industry your whole career um with all this with dynamic air pricing that’s happening, where that’s going, attribute based pricing on hotels… like a lot of you know a lot of concepts that that are just being you know kind of coming to the marketplace. Do you think all that’s going to create a better customer experience you know or more confusing one? I mean you’re dealing with all these suppliers uh you know with your model but do you is this is this a good thing for consumers or or not ultimately?
I think it’s interesting I mean you know certainly in the airline space um you know meta search was was born on you know differences in in pricing right? You find weird things happening and guess what? We’re going back to that you know like all of a sudden there’s there’s different uh you know different pricing right and Americans certainly leading the charge on that. Um and you know when it comes to hospitality um you know the the attributes are really what makes a hotel a hotel and I I think what we’re starting to to to to see now what’s going to get interesting right is is with with ChatGPT because of course how could we have a conversation without mentioning that um you know starts to get really interesting when you think about you know the content that’s out there and and how are you able to manage that content right.
In the old days it was as simple as like going into the GDS and clicking a thing that you had a pool right or the Expedia partner network and saying you know I’ve got a restaurant or here’s the name of my restaurant or whatever. Well now it’s like this spiral of of just content that goes on and on forever and regenerates and whatever else and I think that’s going to be interesting to see how that gets managed right. I think that’s a a definite problem out there um that’s only going to compound itself as we get into this because it’s just it’s gotten far more complicated for hotels um and so we’ll see where that goes.
Well um I think uh you know we said to I mean again it it’s coming just like you know everything with NDC is over 10 years old in terms of you know and now just it’s just becoming like the thing that everybody’s talking about and dealing with right? But but that’s you know it takes like you said that the travel infrastructure overall ecosystem is complex man a lot of moving parts takes a long time to make the change you think it wouldn’t it’s not purely technology right it’s a lot more than that.
But so we we want to ask the final the final question. We always talk about what’s changing what’s new what’s coming but any any uh thoughts about you know for our industry and everything else what what do you think that’s not going to change?
Well I think one thing that will never change is that uh I will always enjoy seat 1A in the pointy end of a plane with a glass of wine. Like that’s never going to change and so um you know that’s a thing yeah um but I I I think more seriously you know we’re we’re certainly at a time of of increased change right and and you know whether it’s NDC or whatever you know the latest you know thing is but still at the end of the day you know this industry is is is really about bringing people together right? That’s why we’re in it that’s why we’re passionate about it you know that’s why we don’t work for Gillette selling razors right because travel is is fun and exciting and you know there’s a certain romance to it and I think you know certainly hope that that will always be the case. And you know for new people entering the business um you know I think there’s still that allure and that luster and um that’s what’s keep kept me excited about it for for a long time besides seat 1A which I don’t get very often anymore. Yeah the days the upgrade days on status are are very different than they were years ago for sure exactly.
Yep well, Tom, thanks a lot, I mean, appreciate you making the time with us, giving please gentlemen dynamic part of the industry thanks for coming on man. Thank you Tom. Tom Botts is the chief commercial officer of Uplift. Thomas nice to see you. Nice to see you as well.
Okay Mike we will be right back with our headwinds and tailwinds. Just a quick shout out: I want to thank Omni Hotels and Resorts for their continued support of Travel Again. We will once again be staying at the Omni Las Colinas next uh next week in Dallas for our Road Show. Their staff is great, the facility is great, the rooms are beautiful um and they have just treated us uh very nicely as we head to complete this Road Show in Dallas. So a big thanks and shout out to Omni Hotels and Resorts.
Mike we will wrap today with headwinds and tailwinds and it’s you’re up first with headwinds. What are your headwinds this week?
Yeah so my headwind is um you know more more activity in and around our our US government and the airlines um the latest one it was an article that just came out that um um the airlines are um you know being looked at more closely potentially by DOT. They kind of put put out some some comments saying that they’re looking at the fact are they devaluing miles um and basically you know looking at the fact of are they kind of selling let’s say points at inflated you know kind of values to direct to consumer versus what credit card issuers get creating inequities. Um there were some hearings on it um which the airlines didn’t attend or the major ones didn’t attend and uh I I think it’s just more again where what you hope is that you know like look the airlines need to market themselves and conduct business you know with different channels differently um they’re certainly going to advantage you know give uh you know have arrangements with credit card companies for co-branded cards etc. etc. And you know certainly they’re right to do those things.
I think just some of the concern though is back to this you know the same issue just different topic right but this this kind of consumer clarity cons like the understanding from a consumer what you’re buying, the fairness of it, the you know is there do you really fully understand what you’re getting and are there you know basically real inequities being created that aren’t just normal business practices right? And I think that’s some of the areas where again yeah I think there’s a line to walk there um I think it’s not always clear so I don’t you know don’t want to jump to any conclusions on this but it’s just we seem to have a lot of these lately.
And I and from past experiences over the years of watching the airlines the ebb and flow of their success, it seems like when they peeking and when they’re have you know in good times they start they’re always looking for ways because they’re again they’re public publicly held businesses they have shareholders they have expectations about next quarterly earnings and trying to drive profitability that you always worry in those times when you’re always trying to better your best you know quarters that you know they start taking and doing things that have unintended consequences around the consumer.
So kind of a long way to get there but kind of saying you know Airlines beware. This is the stuff that everyone watches and tries to watch closely right and you know and and I think it’s good that’s a that’s the role of the DOT, the role of government to watch after those things right so again just uh just things to you know another one to watch. But again one where you go you know don’t let’s not hopefully we’re not getting to a place where we again anything that’s touching miles and points which really drive a big part of the industry and growth.
Yeah and and and even like again the models we were just talking about with Tom those those are really important yeah drove a huge surge in travel so absolutely right and and they’re good and they’re good for the economy so let’s you know encourage them responsibly but also you know the suppliers have to play their part.
Okay mine this week is a tailwind and I don’t know about you Mike but my kids only have a couple of short weeks of school left which means summer is here and the headline I read is a monster summer travel season in is rapidly approaching. And this was reported in a couple places and a couple of hotel brands came out and said that they’re looking uh forward to an incredible looking summer and so summer demand is up. That’s great for the travel community across the across the board and so and on a high note with uh lots of summer activity coming that should help us uh you know jet into the next season following summer but looking forward to a very active summer and that’s good news for the travel industry.
Very good. All right Mike thanks that’s our show for today. Thanks again to our sponsors Southwest and Omni Hotels and Resorts and we will see you back here in a few weeks. Thanks Mike. Take care Ed.